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Angry Rant Ahead!

I thought I could avoid it.  But now people keep shoving it my face no matter where I go.  Hell, it even turned up in 9th Wonders BBoard!  Look people, if you wanna ship Peter and Claude or "Plaude" as it is called, fine, whatever. I DON'T WANNA HEAR ABOUT IT!!!!!!!  Like I said in the last post I did on this, where I felt a mod was trying to pressure me into a slash ship that I wasn't in agreement with, dream/write whatever makes you happy.  I thought all this stuff would stay in the  peterandclaudecom where it belongs, and not keep getting shoved in my face.  I do expect spillage over into the heroes_claudecom but not to some of the other coms I frequent.  And far from my own personal aversion to this, I don't find it believeable at all.  From what we've seen of Claude in the current present of the Heroesverse, Claude strikes me as not having much use for anyone.  And from what I've seen of Peter, yeah, he's cute and tactile but he's straight (Peter/Simone anyone?).  Gimme a break!  Even if I could suspend those first two facts, CLAUDE TOSSED PETER OFF OF A 30 STORY BUILDING!!!  What, am I supposed to buy that that was a "love tap?" If someone threw me off even a 10 story building I'd take it to mean they were mad at me, if not disliked me! I certainly wouldn't look at it as being affectionate!  And furthermore, If Claude is so into Peter, why did he run away? ( "Then I guess you go boom." Claude vanishes and exit's Peter's flat. That ring any bells folks?)

And, as I run Claude in 2 coms, this is my response to "Plaude" courtesy of the wonderful much2muse:

as well as these (which I made):

I so gotta yell at Kring for killing off nearly all the female characters. (Niki's married and has issues and Claire is cool but underage.  And Candice needs to die, like soon! Of all the female "heroes," Candice should have died faster than any.  I'd rather they'd kept Eden, or Hana {as physical}, or Charlie, or heck even Dale!).  And people wonder why I created my own OC for fics with such a complex backstory.




( 11 comments — Leave a comment )
Sep. 13th, 2007 02:02 pm (UTC)
This a rhetorical rant or one that's open to discussion?

I can see and quite like the idea of the ship but I know how some people in fandom can be and looks like you've had a run-in with the bad lot, in several categories.

It's kinda in my nature to want to talk with people who disagree with my views, there's a person I'm on mutual friends with on my f-list just 'cause we had a good arguement over people writing fanfiction in general.

If it's cool, tell me, if not it's your journal won't bother you again :)
Sep. 13th, 2007 02:11 pm (UTC)
You're the first who's bothered to ask :)
In the beginning, when I heard about this stuff, I kind of noted that it existed and was like "Whatever." Then it started cropping up like mad. I was never really a slash fan, though, before events happened to me, I used to find Kirk/Spock hillarious as a concept. Being as I like Peter and adore Claude, and Peter is a bit like me in some respects, I figured I ought to see what all the fuss was about. What a mistake that was. The fic was kind of out of characted and fluffy with pleasantly written graphic sex. My resulting flashback was far from pleasant. *shudder* It's times like this that I wish that Heroes wasn't just a show (albeit my favorite one)and that the Haitian was a real guy (as opposed to a fictional character) because I have more than a few things I'd like hime to erase.
Sep. 13th, 2007 02:40 pm (UTC)
Re: You're the first who's bothered to ask :)
Bad fic gives anything a bad name :)

Yeah, I see the ship but not from the fluffy teeny-bopper let's get matching love heart necklaces and raise kittens together stand point. They exist in all fandoms, don't let them be a reflection of this one. Hell, I came accross one myself, they declared love out of no where and Claude called Peter "poodle" affectionately.

My take on it all?

...let's see how much common ground we can get :)

Claude is damaged, gruff and misanthropic but he still strikes me as a good man. Claude claims that his only interest is in saving the people of the city and I believe him. Yet instead of killing Peter straight away he gives him the chance to gain control of his abilities, even though he's aware the best way to eliminate the threat is to kill him.

As soon as Peter shows he's getting the hang of it, Claude moves his training up to the next level. Or down 30 depending on how you look at it.
Time is of the essence. Either Peter will figure it out and live - he's proven now that he can do it - or he'll die and the threat is gone. Claude would risk Peter's death to save the city but he does it after giving him the chance to live.

Claude is a cynic and a misanthrope but he strikes me as a one time idealist that just got slapped around too much by the real world. He put his faith in humanity, in his friend and paid dearly for it. Yet he doesn't appear to have taken revenge.

Basically Claude's been hurt, very badly, but he's still a good man. It's been his interaction with Peter that's allowed us to see that. Peter is still an idealist, viewing the world with a rosy film over his eyes, Claude with his gift has been left in no doubt as to the real state of the world.

How we doing so far?
Sep. 13th, 2007 02:56 pm (UTC)
Re: last post
With you so far and I got the same impressions you are stating here, too. And it's not them interacting that I object to. They are intersting to watch on screen, in cannon (and some fics). It's what has occurred off screen in fandom that has bothered me.
Sep. 13th, 2007 03:20 pm (UTC)
Re: last post
Claude has spent years of his life hiding from these people, Peter brought them to his door, he freaked and ran. What else was he going to do? I'm assuming - until I'm shown otherwise - that he did really leave.

I don't believe for a moment that he fell madly in love with Peter, I can however see him beginning to feel affection for him. Peter is the first person he's probably made proper contact with in years. I think Claude was beginning to feel fondness for him, hence how he reacted so shocked and angry when Bennet found them. Here for one moment he was beginning to relax the barriers just a little bit, talk with someone, laugh with joy and pride when his student learnt something, and it leads Bennet to him.

Peter saved him, using what Claude had taught him and got them out of it. It can be argued Claude accepted that he'd given Peter as much of a chance as he can - he's using his powers consciously. Call "Escape from Bennet" Peter's final exam, the boy can look after himself, Claude's done his duty and he knows what will happen to him if gets caught. He won't trust anyone else to protect him so he disappears.

You can, if you like, fit lots of messed up pretty slash in there, unlikely to have happened in cannon. And a hell of a lot, even possible slash, after. Peter likes to look after people, to help those that are hurt and Claude is pretty damn damaged. Given the dynamic they have - if you accept Claude was beginning to like him towards the end, and that he's a good man, not just a bastard - to see the slash potential.

It's not necessary but it's not an out of character leap either.
Sep. 13th, 2007 03:38 pm (UTC)
Re: the slash factor/ and some other bad fics
I wasn't surprized that Claude ran. I'd have been more surprized if he stayed. And I never said he was a bastard. Me ex was (probably still is) a bastard. Claude I see as an essentially good man who's been through hell. And the fact that he's just starting to relax when HRG shows up and almost gets both of them would have to be a proverbial slap in the face to him. I really doubt Claude would let his guard down like that again for a long time to come. Further more, even if I bought the Claude is gay (or possibly bi) and Peter is bi (he'd have to be at most bi for all the Peter/Simone, Peter/Niki stuff that is cannon) thinking that some seem to have subscribed to, I doubt Claude would let himself get involved to that level ever again, especially between what Bennet did to him and possibly Haram did as well. (the GN wasn't clear on whether Haram retired or got "offed" by the Company) not unless Claude had more to show him the other person wouldn't betray him, yet again. Hell, right after Peter saves him, when Claude comes to, the first thing he does is sock Peter one and believing that Peter has betrayed him, too. When Claude realizes that it was Isaac who turned them both in, he doesn't apologize to Peter and he still won't stay to finish training Peter. He bolts and Claude hasn't been back (that they've shown) since he bolted from Peter's apartment.
Furthermore, cannon wise, they've never shown Peter and Claude so much as give each other a hug, or that guy-pat thing, or hold hands or anything of that sort. The kindest physical contact on Claude's part is him covering Peter's mouth to stop him yelling out and revealing to Nathan, Mohinder and Nathan's security goon that they were still in Peter's hallway. On Peter's part, a single moment of contact as such is debatable, but other than punches and attempts to dodge, and throwing Claude off the roof, he's grabbed Claude's arm, to get his attention, caught Claude after he was tasered,and flown off with Claude unconscious on his shoulders to help them both escape HRG and the Haitian.

So friendship, I can buy, even if it is a shaky one. Lovers? Not based on what we've seen so far.

And it's not just the fluff fics that are bothering me either. There's one out there that I stumbled accross where Peter is practically raping Claude. I think Claude has suffered enough.

Futhermore, I'd show you the nowhere near PG 13 fic on 9thwonders (that a 13 year old wrote!), but the mods have taken it down. Though, the chibi G stuff that has replaced it and similar hasn't been much better, but as long as they keep it out of my thread, I'll ignore it.
Sep. 13th, 2007 04:23 pm (UTC)
Re: the slash factor/ and some other bad fics
Lovers? Not based on what we've seen so far. .
I agree. In cannon at this point they're certainly not.
(But I see the fun in playing with that in fannon. It's my toy and you're not taking it away :P)

Seriously though:

I doubt Claude would let himself get involved to that level ever again, especially between what Bennet did to him and possibly Haram did as well..

That's part of the attraction for me in the cannon-world. :)

What I'm interested in is Claude's emotional journey, the revelations of his past, exploring his pain and the way that Peter - because Peter is the most likely (in all ways) candidate to develop this - builds a relationship with him. I see this exploration and development as open to a "romantic" relationship as opposed to friendship as any other with the same.

Hell. You can argue it's such a romance set up, to the point it's almost a cliche if you get rid of the gender issues.

I don't expect Claude to fall head over heels, turn into a well adjusted man happy with the world. What I can see is him warily giving someone a chance to gain his friendship - Peter was beginning to do it before Claude even realised what was going on. Claude isn't going to take a big risk but I'm betting Peter can be insiduous when he wants to be. Characters grow and I think we entered Claude's life when things are about to change.

Fandom is full of crap, as is life, as is any other type of fiction - let fannon be fannon. My arguement is that in cannon, with a little meta, there is the potential for Claude/Peter. Claude is damaged, Peter needs to try and heal and maybe Claude wants to a little bit. Peter's never gonna fix him properly, that might even be why it could work.

I don't expect to convert you but if I can at least convince you that some of us can present a view of it without delving into OOC mush, well, it'd be a start.
Sep. 13th, 2007 04:38 pm (UTC)
not trying to take others' fun... but mine is being eclipsed
I'm not trying to take anyone's fun away, but I keep having this ship thrown at me, without warning, and worse yet some folks claiming it is cannon. Caps are taken out of context and shippy manips are made. Hell, there was one vid where they had to use another of Chris' works to make the ship work! If you have to manip it to prove it, it's not cannon; it's just fanfic, a "what if" enjoyed by the author and perhaps some readers. Futhermore, I still can't read this slash/ship-type fics, even the mostly IC stuff. The flashbacks were not due to bad writing but due to my own private Hell. I was betrayed myself once (oddly enough 7 years ago present time) and almost died. I was used, violated and abused and cast away like I was nothing by someone I trusted. Perhaps that is why I am so drawn to Claude. Cause I've been there. It's a wonder I'm not a hermit on a rooftop somewhere...perhaps with a dog.
Sep. 13th, 2007 04:57 pm (UTC)
Re: not trying to take others' fun... but mine is being eclipsed
I'm not trying to take anyone's fun away.

I never thought that you were, it's just instinct for me to explain what I see and try and see someone elses. I see in this potential relationship - whether romance is involved or not - a combination of one of the oldest romantic themes (healing) and the harsh realism that nothing is perfect and you can't fix everything.

I can't imagine what happened and I refuse to pry into your personal life. I can't express how sorry I am, particularly if I or anyone I even the most tenuous links to is responsible for making you revist that.

[And if it was through someone not labling a rape fic I swear to god I will find them and kill the bastards - or verbally burn their bloody ears off at least.]

If there is a personal reason that even the idea of this ship causes a problem then I won't even mention it again but I will say that if that's the case then even sitting and listening and discussing it was strong and thank you.
Sep. 13th, 2007 05:14 pm (UTC)
other than my reasons previously stated
The same individual who betrayed me was the same who abused me in a certain manner... as I had stated, the first Peter/Claude or "Plaude" slash/fic I actually bothered to take a real look at was not a dark one. It was an obviously consentual situation with some care taken. I had read other slash where that occured before... a friend has written some believable Mulder/Captain Jack stories that didn't bother me at all. The "Plaude" fic set me off like nothing else had before. Why this particular ship caused the flashbacks I don't know. Whether it's the fact I can relate to Claude or the fact that I run Claude in 2 RPG's or the fact that on some level I can even see where Peter is coming from (being a Hospice nurse myself) I can't say, maybe all of the above, but what I do know is, I can't read this stuff. Even the consentual stuff.

And the nasty fic? Listed as future!fic but reads as something that starts as gritty consentual and becomes something dangeously close to rape. And even if that were not the case, the rather nasty description of Claude as an "Ugly skinhead" at one point is one surefire way to piss me off. Maybe his looks aren't convetional, but I like them. I've seen ugly and he is no where near it!
Sep. 13th, 2007 11:34 pm (UTC)
Just adding, for the record
I just wanted to add that I never had this kind of a reaction to any of the 9/Jack fics that are out there nor the 9/Rose/Jack, though as a rule I prefer the 9/Rose fics where neither is deliberately teasing the other.
( 11 comments — Leave a comment )

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